Battling Big Pharma: A Conversation with Mark Cuban

Thank you so much for being here.

I don't think our next guest needs much of an introduction,

but I've been given one, so I'm excited

to welcome entrepreneur co-founder of Cost Plus Drugs,

Mark Cuban to the big interview stage

from selling garbage bags door to door at age 12

to founding a lot of groundbreaking tech companies,

Mark has always been ahead of the curve.

It's really no surprise that

with his latest venture Cost Plus Drugs,

he's also ahead of the curve.

He is working to demolish

and rebuild the prescription drug industry.

And that's what we're gonna talk about today.

Everyone, please welcome Mark Cuban.

[audience cheering]

[upbeat music]

Mark, thank you so much for being here.

I liked how you changed fuck up to demolish, you know?

It's a family friendly event.

Oh, then I should leave right now.

This is just like Shark Tank.

So I asked a friend here, actually, Sean, earlier today,

I said, what should I, what should I kick off

Mark Cuban with?

What should I say?

And he said,

why don't you give him a belated

congratulations for Klay Thompson.

Oh, there you go, Klay's killer.

Yeah, we thank everybody here for today.

Yeah, you're lucky that you're welcome in the Bay.

I know.

After that one actually.

Trust me, I look over my shoulder.

[group laughing]

All right, so let's talk about Cost Plus.

When you actually,

when our issue came out in which you're prominently

featured, one thing I heard from people was,

I didn't know Mark Cuban was in the pharmaceutical business.

You've been doing this for a while though.

Why did you get into pharma?

Does anybody here like their healthcare?

Does anybody here think the healthcare industry works well?

That's why, I mean,

I literally got a cold email from a Dr. Alex Vishinsky

who wanted to start up a compounding pharmacy,

which actually makes drugs that are on, in this case,

on short supply, that are on the shortage list.

And I'm like, you're thinking too small.

And that was right around the time Martin Shkreli

was going to jail.

So he was in the news

and I was like, how can this one guy take control

of this drug and jack up the price that dramatically?

And so I'm like, let me just take a look.

And when you look at the pharmaceutical industry, back then,

it was very obvious that it was opaque.

There was no transparency at all.

I mean, think about it.

If you get a prescription from your doctor,

what's the first thing they ask you?

Not can you afford it?

It's what pharmacy do you use?

And that's it.

And then you've gotta deal with the fear

of can you afford it or what's the impact?

What's the copay, what's the deductible?

All those things.

So we said, okay,

let's start a company called costplusdrugs.com

and let's make it transparent.

And it seems so simple, but the impact has been so dramatic.

So if you go to costplusdrugs.com

and you put in the name of the medication

and we've grown from a 111 to 2,500

and we have more to go, you'll, if we carry it,

the medication pops up and you'll see our actual cost.

So we'll show you what we pay for it,

we mark it up 15%, if you want it delivered,

and then there's a $5 pharmacist fee that's included

because you have to have a pharmacist review it

and then $5 to ship it to you.

Or you can, now we have an affiliate network

where you can pick it up at a local pharmacy just

by showing our price, our cost, and only marking up 15%,

we were able to take down the price

of drugs like Imatinib chemotherapy,

drug, MS drugs from like 2000 plus dollars a month

to $21 a month, $35 a month.

So the impact has been insane.

[audience applauding]

What are some of the common drugs people

might recognize that you're manufacturing and selling?

I mean, you know, Imatinib is probably

the most dramatic example.

I don't, I'm not the pharmacist,

remember all the funky names.

But people with MS as an example, we are able to take,

there's a drug called Daroxadopa that

I'll give you the, I'll give you a scenario.

A friend of mine was in this horrific car accident

and he needed to take this drug and lost his insurance.

Emailed me and said, okay, they're telling me it's going

to be $10,000 every three months.

I'm like, okay, Landon, I'll check into it.

Turns out we carried it

and when we carried it back then it was $64 a month

from 10,000 to 64 times three.

And now it's in the $20.

Because as our volumes go up,

because we do everything on a straight markup,

our costs go down.

And literally we have lowered the price

of a medication every single weekday

for the past almost 18 months.

And so if you think about it,

[audience cheering]

but the most dramatic thing we did was unintentional.

We published our entire price list.

And so there's places, if you really looked hard, you can go

and find a price for a medication that you might need.

But there's no place where the

company published their entire price list.

And we did that for all 2,500 drugs.

And what's happened now is that researchers are able to use

that price list to compare to what the government is paying

for things to compare to what states are paying.

And if you have a company that self insures

to start the process of allowing you to compare

what the company pays for the medications

that their employees and the you know, the people

that they cover, the population, they cover what they pay.

And that has just been a game changer.

I mean, we've had researchers from Vanderbilt, Harvard,

all these different places say, you know, if,

you know Medicare bought these nine drugs

from Cost Plus Drugs, just nine drugs

would save $3.6 billion a year if they

bought these 11 drugs that, you know, they might,

it's $6.3 billion a year.

I mean, it's insane.

And literally, you know, for so many folks out here

in the Valley,

probably the easiest way to raise money

and put cash in your own pocket is

to change your healthcare plan.

And in particular, your pharmacy benefit manager.

Because the crux of this problem

and the opacity of the industry,

there are three pharmacy benefit managers that control, give

or take 80% of the market.

So these are basically, these are the middlemen?

The middlemen, yeah.

Yep.

And literally, they don't want you to know what you pay.

If you work with a self-insured company

and they're working with one of the big three one,

let's just say the biggest PBMs,

you're getting ripped off, guaranteed.

The quickest way is to raise money if you have over

100 employees and self-insure is

to change your healthcare program.

And in particular, pharmacy benefit manager,

that's immediate cash in the bank.

And you know, companies don't really realize that.

And that's why it's been so successful.

Because the next question always is how did this happen?

And the reality is there's 155 million people covered

by self-insured employers.

And it's not the core competency of a CEO

to understand all their healthcare benefits.

You just don't, I mean, like.

You could ask a couple of them here

on stage today if you want.

Happy to.

Yeah, you should.

Brian Chesky, let's talk to him about health.

You know, and you say.

Yeah, Jensen Wong,

I'm sure he wants to talk about health plans.

Yeah, Jensen, you know, just say, would you?

No, seriously.

Ask them, why are you dealing with one

of the big pharmacy benefit managers and ask them, is that,

because here's what's happening that's crazy

that they're gonna be, here's why,

they're starting to understand there's a law called

ERISA that requires the employer now

to take on their fiduciary responsibility for the cost

and care of all the lives they cover for as employers.

And J and J and Wells Fargo just got sued

and they're gonna lose.

Which effectively means

that every single major self-insured employer is going

to get sued in a class action suit.

And so if any of you fall into that trap, get ready,

they're coming.

But the bigger point again, is

now there's transparency for medications.

And you can cut the cost,

whether you're a little company or a big company.

And if you have a high deductible or you

or you're uninsured, always check the pricing,

'cause otherwise you're gonna get ripped off.

So you've made it pretty clear you're not doing this

for altruistic reasons.

You're running a business.

You want this to be a profitable business.

I think people hear about what you're doing

and they think, oh, it's altruistic.

Like it's because you're doing something good.

Well, I could make more money.

Right?

But, what you said in.

Seriously, but we're a public benefit corporation,

but how much fucking money do I need?

You know, I'm not trying to land on Mars.

You know, it's just,

[group laughing]

[audience cheering]

and not to take anything away from him

for trying, more power to him.

But the reality is, I mean, at this point in my life,

it's just like, more money, fuck up the healthcare industry?

[group laughing]

That was, that was the word I left out of the intro.

You guys.

F-U-C-K the healthcare industry.

But how did you, but I guess

what I'm getting at is like, how did you decide on

that being the industry you wanted to go after?

Because it was so obvious that it would be easy to change

that it was insane.

What had happened in the past is I dug in more,

and we've been in business now, we started shipping,

you know, two and a half years ago.

And you know, now we have millions of people

whose lives we've changed.

But you start to realize that

what the incumbents would do is they'd go in

and just buy companies.

So anybody that was a threat, they'd just buy 'em.

And one after another, we'd go into situations

where we're talking to employers or whatever,

and they're saying, yeah, we were gonna do

business with this company.

And they were trying to cut the cost,

but then so and so bought 'em.

And like I said that's just not in the cards for us.

Let's talk about tariffs.

[Mark] Tariffs.

Tariffs.

[Mark] Okay.

So President-elect Donald Trump is.

I know who he is, yeah.

You heard of him?

[group laughing]

Okay, so he said that he's planning

to impose tariffs Canada, Mexico, China day one.

We don't know exactly how that's gonna shake out yet,

but we do know that this could affect the drug industry.

I mean, he's referring often to the illegal drug industry.

But also this could affect

the pharmaceutical business.

How is this potentially going to affect Cost Plus Drugs?

I mean, if it's just China, it won't impact us at all.

Why is that?

I mean, because we had,

'cause I checked, we had 16 drugs that we bought

that were shipped from China

and we're changing that to a different manufacturer.

So the Chinese tariffs won't impact us at all.

And now we do get drugs from India.

So we'll see what happens there.

But if there are tariffs, our, we only have 15%.

And so, you know, we'd have to pass them through.

Pass them through meaning the cost goes to the consumer?

Right, the cost would go up 'cause our cost would go up.

Okay.

Have you talked to Donald Trump about this?

[group laughing]

Sure, I was like, yo, what's up bro?

[group laughing]

No, I have not.

You have not?

If the conversation were to occur,

if you were invited to have,

what's your priority?

What's the first thing you would say?

I would say don't fuck it up.

It's working.

You know, I mean, I don't look, there's no point in trying

to guess what he's going to do and speculate,

'cause we don't know, I don't think he knows yet.

I think he's trying to, you know, he plays it by feel

and it'll go where he goes and we will react accordingly.

But I think, you know, he's obviously very cognizant of PR

and the idea that medications from the cheapest provider are

going up and it means more

people aren't able to afford it.

I really don't think he's going in that direction, you know,

I really think he'd make an exception.

You were clearly a vocal supporter

of Kamala Harris for president.

When you look back at?

[audience applauding]

You see how good a job I did?

[group laughing]

When you look at, when you look back at this election

season, is there anything

that you think you would've done differently

or taken a different approach in terms of

how you were communicating?

Not really, I mean, I'm not the candidate.

I did the best I could to try to convey, you know,

what she was doing for business people,

small business, you know.

And I think, you know, the message was good,

but, you know, they weren't voting or not voting for me.

Yeah.

One of the things

that we talked about when we did the big interview in the

magazine was crypto.

And, you know, you feel pretty strongly

and you're in favor of crypto

and you were in favor of it not being villainized.

And you felt as though that's

what Gary Gensler and the SEC had been doing.

And I think it really hurt her.

So you do?

Yeah, I really do.

So what's interesting is, because my response to you was,

isn't that sort of a fringe issue?

And you said no, but in a?

How many people here own crypto?

And so when the price go, when crypto go up,

everybody smile, you know?

And if, when, you know, if you're,

particularly if you're a young male

and you're not part of the traditional banking system,

you know, when I was a kid, open up a bank account,

open up a savings account, now download an app, right?

Robinhood or Coinbase buy crypto

because your friends are buying crypto,

you understand it more.

Maybe you buy stocks,

but more kids were getting into crypto

and that was their net worth.

And when 40%, according to Pew research

of young men own crypto or have owned crypto,

and the guy you're connected to,

Gary Gensler is basically telling you to roll over

and let me stick a bike handle in your ass that just like.

A what?

Yeah, I was gonna say worse,

but I was just going, yeah, that was stupid.

Sorry, but basically you say.

[Host] Did you say a bike handle?

Yeah, forget it.

[group laughing]

I'm sure that's something Elon will tweet about at me.

But in any event,

but Gary Gensler did not make it good

for people who own crypto.

And I think that truly hurt Kamala

and I even said it, I said it to her, I said it to her team,

I said it publicly that Gary Gensler could lose the election

for her, and you know, when there's what,

240,000 votes across seven swing states,

and the number of men, young men

who voted against her was much higher than expected.

I don't think it's a stretch to connect the two.

What happens to crypto now?

I think, you know, it's, you know, the laissez-faire,

it's whatever comes, comes, you know.

But it was interesting when he talked about putting, if any

of the BRICS countries stopped using the dollar

as the de facto reserve currency,

that he was gonna put tariffs on then,

which is the antithesis of what people who gave him a lot

of money and support Bitcoin think they, you know,

they think a big part of the value

of Bitcoin is the fact that fiat currency is weak

and the Federal Reserve weakens it

and it doesn't have a great future.

So here's Bitcoin to save the day.

So it'll be interesting to see if he follows through on that

and what the Bitcoin Maxis think about it.

Does, I mean, is this a moment where Bitcoin

and other crypto currencies actually become more legitimate

or less under?

It's not about legitimate, it's like gold, right?

I mean god, it's not based off the supply

and demand on jewelry, right?

People see it as an option in the event of, you know,

the economy going down or something bad happening.

But people aren't gonna walk around with gold bars.

Oh look, he owns gold.

Bam, now I own gold.

Bam, right?

What are you gonna do it?

Let me slice you

off a little piece of gold.

You know?

And no people look at it, you know,

Fort Knox has got a ton of gold that the United States owns,

you know, and it's supposed to be an underlying asset

or commodity for the dollar in some respects, right?

To buy and sell and people look at Bitcoin

as a better version of gold.

And I agree with that, I think it's a great store of value.

It's easier to buy and sell.

You can fractionalize it, you can buy things,

you can transfer it internationally.

And so I think it has more value than gold.

So I don't think you have to legitimize it,

but in terms of the price, you know, I own enough

that I really want it to go up.

But it's just supply and demand.

How much do you own?

A lot.

Glad we got that out of the way.

We have 10 minutes left

and there's so much I want to ask you about.

I feel like we could talk about crypto the whole time.

I also wanted to ask you about AI,

but I think we're, one thing I'll say about AI,

and then we should move on from it into the platforms,

is that when, when we spoke for the big interview,

you asked me,

what would you trust more in an environment if you like,

you weren't able to see, you said a, what is it

a self-driving car or a seeing eye dog?

[Mark] Right, right, right.

And I said a Waymo and you said, I trust the dog.

And I just wanna say,

while you're here in San Francisco, you should take a Waymo.

No, I want to actually.

Yeah, so if someone here, if anyone would like

to pull up their app and get a Waymo ride

for Mark Cuban on this.

I can do that, I know how to download the app.

He'll pay for it.

[group laughing]

But the difference is a dog will recognize adversarial

situations better than AI can.

Right, when you were talking about

training the video and all that.

But I, let's talk about the platforms

because you are a very active twitterer.

You're not using it quite as much anymore.

Nearly at all.

You've gone to Blue Sky.

How would you describe this moment

for, I'm just gonna call it Twitter.

How would you describe this moment for Twitter?

I think it's an existential moment for Twitter.

I really do.

I go over to Blue Sky

and I can engage like it's, you know, 2015

or 2016 like we did on Twitter.

And literally, I can talk about the Mavs

and people aren't going to come in

and say fuck, the Mavs, you're an asshole.

You know, you look like.

[Host] You took Klay Thompson.

Yeah, you took Klay Thompson.

Oh, I get some of those but that's okay.

Or you look like Rachel Maddow when you wear glasses,

you know.

[group laughing]

You know just dumb shit.

That's the tame stuff.

You know whats crazy.

No, it's crazy.

I counted, so whenever Elon would talk shit to me,

I would just bookmark it on Twitter

and somebody said that he said something

and I would just check and he had it.

But I just decided to count

how many times he has posted about me

or replied about me in the last 12 months.

More than 40 times, I stopped at 40.

And it's just like, what the fuck?

You know, I mean, I don't mind going back and forth at him,

but who, like we talked

before, whoever controls the algorithm,

controls the platform.

And when you have an algorithm that defines

what happens on the platform

and what you see, you get one type of engagement,

when you go to Blue Sky where you completely control

the experience,

you get a completely different type of engagement.

And so I can talk about Cost Plus Drugs and really engage.

I can talk about, you know, I can see other discussions

and jump in and ask questions.

And it was, it's been great.

I mean, literally,

and when some idiot comes along, like somebody

who comes over from Twitter who likes

to give me there comes on, not only can you block 'em

and it's a real block,

but you can do this thing if you started the thread

where you can say hide reply for everyone,

that's like the best thing in the world ever.

Because, you know, I want to talk about the Mavs

or Cost Plus or whatever, and troll comes in, troll gone.

And the one thing about a troll is a troll wants

to be seen, right?

If you know, within 15 minutes you're gone

and nobody's gonna see what you posted,

there's no point in continuing to fight it,

particularly since you truly can't see my post.

And even if they, you know, create burner accounts

or whatever to try to get in,

it just takes two seconds to do it.

And so as a result, you know,

I forget the topic I was talking about,

but I counted, I literally counted that there was over five.

And if you go to Blue Sky, I'm MCuban,

and you'll see my reference to this,

that there were 526 responses to something

and only five trolls posted.

And that took me just a minute to clean 'em out.

And it was a great conversation.

I mean, just.

Do you feel like there, that the Blue Sky

is in any way just becoming an echo chamber

of the people who decided that Twitter was too toxic

or too right wing for them.

To a certain extent yes.

And now they've just moved over to Blue Sky?

To a certain extent yes.

So how in a sense, how does that fix anything?

It doesn't matter, right?

Because, you know, if I want to talk like the Mavs, right?

So I went to a bunch of sports writers

and there's these things called Sport Starter Packs

on Blue Sky.

And they were all in there, and I said.

We have a Wired one, follow it.

Thank you.

The Wire starter pack.

And you see what happens.

I can engage with them and talk Mavs and see where it goes.

And you know, like Ben Shapiro, he has an account there

and I can engage with him.

I may agree or disagree,

but if I start the thread, I have control of it.

And if it turns out to be a legitimate argument

or discussion, that's great.

And you know the point being

that whoever controls the Thread controls the conversation

and it can open it up to anybody they want.

And there's no for you page, you know,

so it's not like it's dominated by everything

that Elon says.

It's dominated, you know, it's dominated

by the people you follow or the list that you create

or the feeds that you follow.

And so you get to really engage and that's, it's cool.

I mean, it's just like all that intellectual engagement

that we kind of miss from Twitter where it was like, oh,

this is a great topic, I want to learn more.

Or I'm just, you know,

watching these people have this conversation, it's amazing.

And there's, you know, yeah, there's one

or two idiots in there, you know, not,

I'm not even talking about people I disagree with,

but people who just say stupid stuff, right?

Hateful stuff.

It's so de minimus

that the engagement is amazing.

And I think that's why it's growing.

And you even saw the New York Times come on there

and someone told me they referenced one

of their posts on Blue Sky as,

and where in the past they would do that on Twitter,

you know, and to see them move over

to escape what's going on over there is great.

And here they are, I don't know their latest numbers,

but they have more than 22 million users.

And I can tell.

I think we're gonna get update on those

numbers shortly actually.

Jay coming on stage.

Jay comes on.

But you gotta try it.

And like I said, I'm MCuban, try it.

I mean, bring your friends on there.

It is truly a social network.

Hey, was that the Mavs game?

Da da da, I was there to, I mean, that's insane, to be able

to have that conversation on a social network.

I think that there was, there's been this idea

for a long time, and certainly I think probably when you

were starting out as an in internet entrepreneur, that

the internet was a little bit downstream from culture.

And now we've come around to this idea

that the internet is culture.

And we certainly saw that play out a lot

in this election too.

And there were some reactions, responses

to the outcome of this election is saying that, well,

the on the left people don't have the same kind of audience

that people are gaining on the right, right?

Like, there's no podcast for the left.

That was something that.

Yeah, I don't agree with that at all.

So yeah, so talk about this like,

because if everyone who just doesn't like Twitter anymore,

moves to Blue Sky

or moves to Threads or moves to something like it,

but Twitter remains while small, relatively in numbers

to some social networks, but sort of outsize influence

otherwise.

I don't think Twitter.

I mean, if you want to know what Elon thinks,

Twitter's amazing and that's great, right?

That's his platform.

So how do we distinguish reality?

I'm sorry?

How do we distinguish reality then on social media?

I mean, what's really happening?

I've been on Theo Von, I've been on The Nelk Boys,

I've been on all those podcasts and everything,

but Joe Rogan, he won't have me on for whatever reason.

And so when you go on there,

they just want to have a conversation.

And from that conversation, there's a ton of clips.

Like Andrew Schultz, I had a great conversation with him.

They're still posting clips, right?

And so when you go on those, it's not that they're right

or left, it's that they create clips

that feed the algorithm on Twitter.

And so if you happen to, you know, be a fan of theirs

and comparable things, the algorithm's gonna find you,

you know, the algorithm always finds you with things

that you've shown interest in.

And so that's great.

But the way to deal with that isn't in trying

to get more Andrew Schultz's, you know, to conjure that,

the way to deal with that is to flood the zone.

You know?

[Host] What does that mean?

What does that look like?

What that means is either going

and going, making the rounds

and, you know, creating things that are,

that are worth talking about or worth showing,

or just create memes left

and right so that it just dominates the algorithms.

So like I told the Harris campaign

and you know, they really didn't pursue it.

You have to, I had a conversation with Mr. Beast

that was illuminating to no end.

And he basically said, he said, spends millions

of dollars reverse engineering the algorithms

on each platform.

And that's where he comes up with the ideas on

what to do next.

And that's exactly

what the next political campaign has got to do.

You've got to figure out what you know, for each type

of individual that you want to get to vote for you

that you want to engage.

You have to figure out their algorithm,

'cause each one of us in this room has our own algorithm on

Twitter that, you know, it's effectively customized

for us on Twitter, Instagram, et cetera.

And so you have to flood the zone with

as many different memes, clips, everything that you can do.

So there's something for everybody.

And you had, there's so much volume you can't miss it.

And it has nothing to do with the right or left.

I mean, like I told 'em, it could be,

it's not like it was facts

that made the difference in this election, right?

You know, they're eating cats

and dogs, you know, he's fucking a couch.

You know, that's what they needed more of,

more couch fucking stuff for real right?

Because if there would've been

600 million couch fucking extensions,

everybody would've seen it continuously

because the memes don't filter out, right?

The algorithms don't filter out, right?

They filter forward.

And that's politics going forward.

And you really do think

that would've altered the outcome of the election?

I think if you would, it would've made

all the difference in the world.

But because when there's,

because when Donald Trump would talk about their

eating cats and dogs, everybody had to cover it.

And it turned into a meme, even though it started

as one person posting one thing on Facebook when they

started talking about weird at the beginning,

when they talk about Brat, when they talk about

fucking the couch, it was everywhere.

And everybody had to respond to it.

You have to flood the zone.

They started Kamala's campaign,

started off flooding the zone with stuff,

and then dropped it

and tried to be, you know, tried to use accuracy

as a differentiator.

Whereas, you know, Donald Trump's,

he floods the zone continuously.

That's what he does.

That's who he is as a campaigner.

He's a great salesperson.

He's willing to put himself in just all kinds

of crazy situations and flood the zone with information.

And it got to the point in my mind, at the end of the day,

it was, who do you trust more?

For the things that they scared

that you were scared most about?

Were you scared most about tariffs?

Were you scared most about people eating cats and dogs?

You know, were you scared most about taxes?

Were you scared most about immigration and the border?

And they scared you and then they flooded

the zone with memes.

And that's, to me what that and partially crypto.

We're out of time.

But I do have to ask you one more question.

I want to leave the audience with a note of hope, optimism

in somewhat politically volatile, unstable times.

I hate saying that in these times, in this moment.

How, what would you say to people?

What's a piece of advice you have to give to people

for navigating that, for living their lives?

Look, you guys are here for a reason.

You're here because you believe in something better.

You believe in something bigger, in this country

that we are the one country in the world

where when you have an idea

and you get that feeling in your stomach,

you guys know what I'm talking about.

And then you say to a friend, oh, I got this idea.

What do you think Lauren?

And Lauren goes, oh, that's really cool.

And then you go and Google it.

Or now you put it into ChatGPT, or Gemini or whatever,

and it gives you a business plan

and go, oh my God, I can do this.

What makes us different is we go out there and do it.

That's who we are as a country.

We may be in weird times right now politically,

but that doesn't change who we are as Americans,

the President, you know, we can be afraid

and we can be aware and we can be concerned.

But what you do

and who you are, that's what makes us different.

And so I am bullish on the United States of America,

no doubt about it because that's why people are here.

It's not like people aren't showing up.

[audience applauding]

You know, it's not like people aren't coming

to this Wired conference.

It's not like, you know,

there aren't great interviews up here.

It's not like people are saying, oh we're

fucked let's just go sleep, right?

No, people are doing what we do

and that's what makes us unique.

If you look at every single new technology over the last,

we talked about this, so over the last 30 years, 95%

of them have come here.

Maybe they were born somewhere else, but they're here.

And the companies were born here or grown here

because that's what we do.

Who the fuck else does that?

We do as Americans.

And that's not going to change

no matter who the president is.

Sounds like a stump speech.

[audience applauding]

Mark, unfortunately, that's all the time we have.

I'd love to keep talking.

Thank you so much for being here.

Thanks for having me, Laura.

It's really great.

It's really great hearing from you.

[audience applauding]

All right.